Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

[kenntona]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

If what you say is true that within warranty period, PI cars can still get repaired regardless, my next ride will not be from AD. I am not too sure if most ppl have the same understanding as you. I have been given the impression that PI cars will nvr get a second look from ADs and so the probabilty of warranty claims is zero.

That's correct. I dealt with MBM within the warranty period on my 335s, no issue. Two claims on the sunroof motors against PML, settled by MBM.

May I add that I am somewhat peeved by the perception of some AD customers as well as AD themselves that PI car buyers are stingy and less well off...as if they committed a crime...and they are like second class "citizens". Sporeans really got f up elitist mentality....maybe thats the perception ADs been passing off to their buyers...

Dun bother, Niva. My mod funds were almost equivalent to the price difference between AD and PI cars. And when I sold it, it was sold at a higher depre number than an AD car one year newer.

 

[bm323]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Actually the two-year International Warranty is issued by BMW the manufacturer, to be honoured anywhere in the world by all authorised dealers. PML added the third year local warranty.

For BMW cars purchased from PI, do they come with an international warranty which expressly states that PML Singapore is one of the service and repair centers for covering warranty and service matters?

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Ok I need to clarify something maybe because it wasn't indicated in my previous post.

I for one would agree to the case of buy PI, go PI, buy AD go AD. Or in layman terms, go shoot for the person you bought your car from, simple as that.
However, I do understand that all BMWs come with an international warranty and that during this international warranty period you may wish to go to any AD to get a Manufacturer's Only Issue fixed. However it doesn't make any sense for the AD to treat PI customers on par with their own.

Now for my case, I did gun for the person I bought my car from. As a matter of fact I went to 3 of their "trusted workshops" to rectify the problem in my car. The 4th place I went to was PML. Why? This was because the 3 workshops couldn't fix it (varying reasons from no tools, to no parts to never see this problem before). PML was also recommended by the PI I bought my car from. So in the end I paid $2.5k for the parts ONLY. The service advisor said "Can confirm no problem, guarantee 100% it will work." So I paid for it outta my own pocket but alas, it was bollocks. Best part is after calling PML, they said sorry no refund, its company policy for these special indent items. So now after 4 workshops, down $2.5k and without any results.

Going to MA was my last option. Since there was the option of paying the adoption fee then ok fine, I'll do it even if it means I'm gonna be 2nd or 3rd class whore.

Now what I am concerned about is that I expect a problem to be fixed if I pay this $30k + misc charges. No straight answer could be given.

This is no longer an issue about buy PI go PI or buy AD go AD. This is about how the management is to view their attitude in handling situations like this. It may not be a serious case like a blown engine but regardless since you offer this alternative, please see it through. Thats all!

 

[bm323]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

So in the end I paid $2.5k for the parts ONLY. The service advisor said "Can confirm no problem, guarantee 100% it will work." So I paid for it outta my own pocket but alas, it was bollocks. Best part is after calling PML, they said sorry no refund, its company policy for these special indent items. So now after 4 workshops, down $2.5k and without any results.

Then claim against PML since they said guarantee 100% it will work. Is this or the the problem you boughtthe parts for, in writing?

However, I do understand that all BMWs come with an international warranty and that during this international warranty period you may wish to go to any AD to get a Manufacturer's Only Issue fixed.

Is this Manufacturer's Only Issue defined?

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Then claim against PML since they said guarantee 100% it will work. Is this or the the problem you boughtthe parts for, in writing?


Is this Manufacturer's Only Issue defined?

Nope not in writing unfortunately.... I called them up and screw them over this and their reply "Sorry we didn't know that you were unaware special indent parts were non-refundable". They added another sentence which just killed all conversation. "Your car is PI right? We didn't levy a premium on these parts also right?" Anyway, I did my own research. A small handful of people in the world had the same problem but paying for the same parts worked for them. So in my case, was the service advisor totally at fault? Well not really if you ask me. Anyway I absorbed the loss and moved on, which lead me to MA and subsequently the issues.

From what I understand, this so called warranty covers faults or failures due to imperfection during the manufacturing process OR quality control. If the fault occurs due to usage OUTSIDE of manufacturer's authorised limitations then the warranty does not cover. As to a debate on what the limitations are, seriously I think it'll go on for another 16254 pages probably.

This may not particularly apply to BMWs only but I do know of a case in Subaru years back when my warrany on my 4 months old wrx was voided because I changed an air filter and as a result my rear diff went kaput. I'm not sure how a simple $450 Blitz air intake will cause the diff to blow but well MI's service advisors are somehow experts in these diagnosis. Around the same time, another forummer's input shaft was desecrated. Sent to MI, all fixed up, warranty covered. Well MI didn't know then the owner had already done 2 trackdays and multiple drag races. Thing though, the car was STOCK.

Anyway the whole saga is over, I'm not pointing fingers. It was one helluva experience and my thoughts and opinions are just for sharing and not to rub it in anybody's face nor create an argument

 

[MW]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Barry, now you and Omar can really hang out and be best friends.

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Why lei ?

 

[bm323]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

If the warranty given by BMW Germany covers only imperfection during the manufacturing process or quality control, then most of the complaints in this thread have no basis. BMW Germany didn't state that PML Singapore is under any obligation to service or repair every BMW car, only for imperfection during the manufacturing process or quality control. PML Singapore is not the manufacturer. They are not BMW Germany's agent for all matters relating to all BMW cars.

This answers OP's post, the complaint is without basis unless the warranty is wider than what is mentioned above.

One of the recurring discussion in the thread centers around what an AD is obliged to do. Many say that since the car is not purchased from AD, there is no reason to service the car.

I respectfully differ on this issue.

Taking on a principle for a brand, and in this case being an authorized dealer comes with a number of responsibilities. They include building the brand in the country, representing the interest of the manufacturer, and most important of all, taking care of the MANUFACTURER'S CUSTOMERS.

Why should a brand / manufacturer accord the status of an AD to a company not willing to undertake these responsibilities? Might as well go straight to independent dealers.

This does not mean that an AD have to lose money over these responsibilities for PI cars:

1. Honouring factory warranty. This is actually a revenue-neutral exercise. Costs incurred for the warranty work are actually charged back to the manufacturer, so the AD doesn't suffer financial loss. One can even say the higher volume of servicing help cover part of the the AD's overhead.

2. Servicing vehicle after warranty. Counter to what many mentioned in the forum, after sales service is VERY PROFITABLE. Many manufacturers make good money from after sales programme -- no reason why AD cannot.

The ONLY reason AD in Singapore ask for adoption fee is to protect their OUTSIZE PROFIT MARGIN.

 

[bm323]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Nope not in writing unfortunately.... I called them up and screw them over this and their reply "Sorry we didn't know that you were unaware special indent parts were non-refundable". They added another sentence which just killed all conversation. "Your car is PI right? We didn't levy a premium on these parts also right?" Anyway, I did my own research. A small handful of people in the world had the same problem but paying for the same parts worked for them. So in my case, was the service advisor totally at fault? Well not really if you ask me. Anyway I absorbed the loss and moved on, which lead me to MA and subsequently the issues.

PML was wrong to shift blame. They can't say PI car, so not their problem. They advised you to buy the parts, they have to be responsible for their advice.

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

If the warranty given by BMW Germany covers only imperfection during the manufacturing process or quality control, then most of the complaints in this thread have no basis. BMW Germany didn't state that PML Singapore is under any obligation to service or repair every BMW car, only for imperfection during the manufacturing process or quality control. PML Singapore is not the manufacturer. They are not the BMW Germany's agent for all matters relating to all BMW cars.

This answers OP's post, the complaint is without basis unless the warranty is wider than what is mentioned above.

Hmmm I see where you're getting at. I agree PML is not obligated to service all BMW cars once they are out of the AG's international warranty. Is the AG warranty still 2 years? I've not bought any cars from PML lately so I lost track of this info.

In your case, PML was wrong to shift blame. They can't say PI car, so not their problem. They advised you to buy the parts, they have to be responsible for their advise.

Right as you may be, unfortunately that was what is being conveyed to me and well I completely lost interest talking to them. Lesson learnt, ask properly, write down T&Cs.

 

[MapleLeaf]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Hmmm I see where you're getting at. I agree PML is not obligated to service all BMW cars once they are out of the AG's international warranty. Is the AG warranty still 2 years? I've not bought any cars from PML lately so I lost track of this info.


.

I wonder how did MunichA processed my 3rd year warranty claims... right to the last week of warranty.

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

I wonder how did MunichA processed my 3rd year warranty claims... right to the last week of warranty.

Wot happened to your ride?

 

[MapleLeaf]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Two months near warranty expiry, I went to TWM for assessment. They gave me a list of a few minor items to rectify (stablizer link faulty, water pump noisy, and oil sensor faulty).

To cut my story short, went to PML and car was admitted for between two to four day for FOUR TIMES, and they still find no fault. Each time went back to TWM and they still identify as fault there.

Went to MA and they agreed to TWM and rectified it, under warranty claim.

TWM re-assessed my car and I bought 5-year warranty. You tell me who to trust... TWM or PML?


Despite all the feedback on TWM, they are stil better than PML. Of cos I know I can now go to BVO for TWM claims.

 

[Welbo]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Well I think the whole definition of a manufacturer's worldwide guarantee is that: regardless of where or who you buy the car from, you should be able to send your car to an authorised dealer or a and approved workshop.

Technically it doesn't matter if you send the car to your PI or the AD to service your car. Either workshop would still claim warranty costs from the manufacturer.

My beef is always about Adoption Fee imposed by AD that is really another "suck blood" scheme to earn more profit for their company. For all warranty claims, AD actually earn the Labour cost for the job that is required if it is cover under the International Warranty.

Take for eample, if your gearbox kaput, the cost of the part is taken care by factory and the labour hrs to replace ur gearbox say 16hrs is than multiple by the amount pre-determined by the factory, likely around 60-80 Euros per hr for most german made cars. The AD that do the repair then earn the 60Euros * 16hrs = 960 euros for your warranty claim. Their labour cost and overhead costs is already quite fixed so this is actually extra income for them.

To differentiate AD's customers and PI's customers, I am fine that they charge 20% extra in both parts and labours for PI's cars to cover their over-heads but to outright reject PI cars or imposed Adoption Fee is really a Singapore Only kind of practise.

 

[golfgti]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

to outright reject PI cars or imposed Adoption Fee is really a Singapore Only kind of practise.

haha how u thk we achieve worlds highest GDP rates? by squeezing everyones ballz LOL

here its take the heat or get outta da kitchen!!!

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

My beef is always about Adoption Fee imposed by AD that is really another "suck blood" scheme to earn more profit for their company. For all warranty claims, AD actually earn the Labour cost for the job that is required if it is cover under the International Warranty.

Take for eample, if your gearbox kaput, the cost of the part is taken care by factory and the labour hrs to replace ur gearbox say 16hrs is than multiple by the amount pre-determined by the factory, likely around 60-80 Euros per hr for most german made cars. The AD that do the repair then earn the 60Euros * 16hrs = 960 euros for your warranty claim. Their labour cost and overhead costs is already quite fixed so this is actually extra income for them.

To differentiate AD's customers and PI's customers, I am fine that they charge 20% extra in both parts and labours for PI's cars to cover their over-heads but to outright reject PI cars or imposed Adoption Fee is really a Singapore Only kind of practise.

Best part is even though I was willing to pay the adoption fee, still kenna the pay first then we tell you can anot.....

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Best part is even though I was willing to pay the adoption fee, still kenna the pay first then we tell you can anot.....

For PML tell now or later is like sticking a dildo up their farking ass. It never comes out.
Waste time. You might have more luck with MA with the knowing part for sure.
Ha HA HA...

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

For PML tell now or later is like sticking a dildo up their farking ass. It never comes out.
Waste time. You might have more luck with MA with the knowing part for sure.
Ha HA HA...

Bro, this was at MA........

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Bro, this was at MA........

Ooops. Thought it was the other way around.
In that case, I think MA should have given you an assurance if they can settle it if you pay the adoption fee. Not pay the adoption fee for an answer if it wud work or not. That's pure entrapment.

 

[Welbo]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

I save $65k buying from PI and that is enough for me to cover most repair if any on my own.

U pay for parts using own pocket sure faster and more efficient than claiming warranty.