Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
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Re: Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
makwe isnt mother but gf
saifywaify;267340 said:hmm.. is it just me or do you see the lexus "december to remember" ad on this page too?
another side note.. whats with the malay/indon sentences? i don't understand half of what you're saying.. haha.
jack! translate.
makwe isnt mother but gf
Re: Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
Look, I am starting to think you are splitting hairs with your premises. I am talking about the actual consumer behaviour of big ticket items. Sure, there are pure second handers who purchase smaller branded items purely to garner respect for others, but on a huge purchase like a car, prestige and ostentation are but ONE of many variables in their decision making process. There are too many factors involved - like practicality, comfort, fuel consumption, financing, performance, after-market service, maintenance and so on. There are extreme purists on one end, but it is my take that the rest fall in between the spectrum. To say there are pure second handers on the other end of the spectrum on automobile purchases is to ignore the various intricacies working the minds of a potential buyers. It may work on fashion and lifestyle products from a $100 tee to a $4000 mobile phone, but I find it hard to accept your hypothesis that there are people who are pure second handers - those who buy a car, not that they like it, but strictly to show-off.
As for the formation of the "gangs", it is purely perspective. This forum, in totality, is a gang by itself on certain issues. The catalyst of the formation? All units of the "gang" stand on the same side of belief, attitude, lifestyles and values. In this respect, you could be a "gang member" of group A on issue A, but a "gang member" of group B on issue B. It is simply a trait of social behaviour. Why are you so bothered by it, if you could stand firm on your stance?
That's not a possibility - that's a reality !!!centurion said:
Look, I am starting to think you are splitting hairs with your premises. I am talking about the actual consumer behaviour of big ticket items. Sure, there are pure second handers who purchase smaller branded items purely to garner respect for others, but on a huge purchase like a car, prestige and ostentation are but ONE of many variables in their decision making process. There are too many factors involved - like practicality, comfort, fuel consumption, financing, performance, after-market service, maintenance and so on. There are extreme purists on one end, but it is my take that the rest fall in between the spectrum. To say there are pure second handers on the other end of the spectrum on automobile purchases is to ignore the various intricacies working the minds of a potential buyers. It may work on fashion and lifestyle products from a $100 tee to a $4000 mobile phone, but I find it hard to accept your hypothesis that there are people who are pure second handers - those who buy a car, not that they like it, but strictly to show-off.
In that case, the concept of Saify and Toto "ganging up" against you and that you, not being a conformist, are ostracised, should not appear in your arguments. It is a simple fact that they think alike and vocalise their thoughts at the same time.centurion said:
Again, studying polarity is useless if they are exceptions rather than the norm. In the world of automobiles, there is a school of technical purists, like yourself. There is also a mass market of car enthusiasts who, perhaps not in your purest definition of "enthusiasts", are looking at cars from a multi-facted perspectives. And on the other extreme, those whom you theorised buying cars solely to impress, that I find is a pure statistical exercise on improbability. Studying these exceptions, if they do exist around you, will yield nothing constructive at all. Waste of time.centurion said:
As for the formation of the "gangs", it is purely perspective. This forum, in totality, is a gang by itself on certain issues. The catalyst of the formation? All units of the "gang" stand on the same side of belief, attitude, lifestyles and values. In this respect, you could be a "gang member" of group A on issue A, but a "gang member" of group B on issue B. It is simply a trait of social behaviour. Why are you so bothered by it, if you could stand firm on your stance?
PerverTT
Well-Known Member
Re: Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
Well, what a difference a day makes!
caySman changes his name, and 4 more pages gets added to this lively topic! centurion, I’m sure that you will eventually explain why you chose this name for this forum.
kenntona – good to see that both you and centurion seem to agree on ‘second handers’ and what I would call ‘rationalists’ as pure types. I suspect most people on this forum (myself included) would fall somewhere in between. You’ve raised a good point that most car buyers base their decisions on multiple criteria. But I would have to disagree with your statement that a study of those who mainly buy to impress or to show off would be an exercise in statistical improbability. Vendors of luxury goods, BMW AG included, thrive on vanity!
It is very easy to rationalise why one has decided to buy an up-market car like a Porsche or a BMW. People will justify their purchase decisions by quoting reasons like excellent German engineering, better than any Japanese car, 0 – 100 in 4.8 seconds, etc etc. These are their ostensible reasons. What they are less likely to say are things like ‘I want to show people how successful I am.’ Or ‘This will look much better in the golf club car park.’ Or ‘I can’t stand the fact that my in-law has one and I don’t.’ Or ‘I want women / men to find me more attractive.’
The latter reasons are not usually mentioned because they are seen as less virtuous. But this does not mean that these reasons are any less valid. In fact, companies like BMW AG actively play on ‘second hander’ qualities like snobbishness. ‘Join us,’ is the invitational caption on a BMW marketing brochure that was left in my car after it was serviced at a dealer a few years ago.
Perhaps someone (not a technological Neanderthal like myself) could start a sticky one day asking forum members why they bought their BMWs. There should obviously be check boxes for things like ‘sheer driving pleasure’ or ‘ultimate driving machine.’ My perverse sense of humour hopes to also see check boxes for other things like ‘penis augmentation’ and ‘charisma transplant.’
Note: Apologies for going off-topic, but I figured that the preceding discussion had gone so far away from the relative merits of driving a Porkie that one more OT post wouldn’t matter.
Well, what a difference a day makes!
caySman changes his name, and 4 more pages gets added to this lively topic! centurion, I’m sure that you will eventually explain why you chose this name for this forum.
kenntona – good to see that both you and centurion seem to agree on ‘second handers’ and what I would call ‘rationalists’ as pure types. I suspect most people on this forum (myself included) would fall somewhere in between. You’ve raised a good point that most car buyers base their decisions on multiple criteria. But I would have to disagree with your statement that a study of those who mainly buy to impress or to show off would be an exercise in statistical improbability. Vendors of luxury goods, BMW AG included, thrive on vanity!
It is very easy to rationalise why one has decided to buy an up-market car like a Porsche or a BMW. People will justify their purchase decisions by quoting reasons like excellent German engineering, better than any Japanese car, 0 – 100 in 4.8 seconds, etc etc. These are their ostensible reasons. What they are less likely to say are things like ‘I want to show people how successful I am.’ Or ‘This will look much better in the golf club car park.’ Or ‘I can’t stand the fact that my in-law has one and I don’t.’ Or ‘I want women / men to find me more attractive.’
The latter reasons are not usually mentioned because they are seen as less virtuous. But this does not mean that these reasons are any less valid. In fact, companies like BMW AG actively play on ‘second hander’ qualities like snobbishness. ‘Join us,’ is the invitational caption on a BMW marketing brochure that was left in my car after it was serviced at a dealer a few years ago.
Perhaps someone (not a technological Neanderthal like myself) could start a sticky one day asking forum members why they bought their BMWs. There should obviously be check boxes for things like ‘sheer driving pleasure’ or ‘ultimate driving machine.’ My perverse sense of humour hopes to also see check boxes for other things like ‘penis augmentation’ and ‘charisma transplant.’
Note: Apologies for going off-topic, but I figured that the preceding discussion had gone so far away from the relative merits of driving a Porkie that one more OT post wouldn’t matter.
Re: Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
Kenn, I agree totally with you. I am also one of the silent majority who read often but post much less. What I have read of caysman's posts have frequently involved mention of P-cars even if not titled as such. Nothing wrong with this per se but being such a prolific poster makes him appear somewhat of a fanboy. This grates with people who otherwise would live and let live.
All this talk about second handers is pure hogwash. By this I mean that we all have some elements of the poseur and the enthuaist in each of us. No one makes a decision esp one of a high value item like a car without considering all sides of the equation; down to the X-factor either to society or the opposite sex. To think otherwise is to delude oneself.
To Caysman (or centurion), speaking out like I do does not mean I am 'ganging' up on you, rather I note with increasing disquiet the judgemental nature of many of your posts; albeit couched in diplomatic and self-effacing tones. Though you would certainly argue otherwise with many examples to back you up, much of what you say and believe in is either black or white with nary a shade of grey.
Peace
kenntona;267473 said:
Kenn, I agree totally with you. I am also one of the silent majority who read often but post much less. What I have read of caysman's posts have frequently involved mention of P-cars even if not titled as such. Nothing wrong with this per se but being such a prolific poster makes him appear somewhat of a fanboy. This grates with people who otherwise would live and let live.
All this talk about second handers is pure hogwash. By this I mean that we all have some elements of the poseur and the enthuaist in each of us. No one makes a decision esp one of a high value item like a car without considering all sides of the equation; down to the X-factor either to society or the opposite sex. To think otherwise is to delude oneself.
To Caysman (or centurion), speaking out like I do does not mean I am 'ganging' up on you, rather I note with increasing disquiet the judgemental nature of many of your posts; albeit couched in diplomatic and self-effacing tones. Though you would certainly argue otherwise with many examples to back you up, much of what you say and believe in is either black or white with nary a shade of grey.
Peace
Re: Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
No lah bro, it is all good, just saying it like it is. How are you man? Enjoying the the wind in your face top down to the accompliment of those turbo whooshes? Nothing beats a cab eh? Sweet ride there!
Stay well.
Physicist;267513 said:
No lah bro, it is all good, just saying it like it is. How are you man? Enjoying the the wind in your face top down to the accompliment of those turbo whooshes? Nothing beats a cab eh? Sweet ride there!
Stay well.
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
Kenn, we're of a mind when it comes to this, essentially meeting up on the concepts but disagreeing on actual implementation of the concepts. That's good enough agreement for me.
Saify and Toto think alike? NOOOOO! C'mon Kenn... you must be a VIRGIN.
Why I'm bothered by gangs? I'm not bothered by gangs in general. I wanted to make an observation - it is interesting that, instinctively, toto (not Saify) seems to hate me, and it seems to me that he does hate me in a calculated and not an emotional manner - take note that this is MY romanticizing the situation with some dramatization, and may turn out to be totally wrong. Of course, if he does hate me, he hates me not because of me, but himself, so I take no credit here and I take nothing personally. And I'm not flattering myself either - look at the threads recently posted by toto, he thinks of me all the time, like I'm his obsession. LOL, just interesting as hell.
Saify's innocently confused. OLL - not the same kettle of fish. Arsenal, also totally different kettle of fish.
Kenn, we're of a mind when it comes to this, essentially meeting up on the concepts but disagreeing on actual implementation of the concepts. That's good enough agreement for me.
Saify and Toto think alike? NOOOOO! C'mon Kenn... you must be a VIRGIN.
Why I'm bothered by gangs? I'm not bothered by gangs in general. I wanted to make an observation - it is interesting that, instinctively, toto (not Saify) seems to hate me, and it seems to me that he does hate me in a calculated and not an emotional manner - take note that this is MY romanticizing the situation with some dramatization, and may turn out to be totally wrong. Of course, if he does hate me, he hates me not because of me, but himself, so I take no credit here and I take nothing personally. And I'm not flattering myself either - look at the threads recently posted by toto, he thinks of me all the time, like I'm his obsession. LOL, just interesting as hell.
Saify's innocently confused. OLL - not the same kettle of fish. Arsenal, also totally different kettle of fish.
kenntona;267473 said:
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
caysman changes to centurion: because caysman is a little bit showy, seems to breed envy, no sense to get that stupid point as a point of contention in a good fight. centurion is chosen because that's the word on my computer casing.
and you have to share with me how the hell you write so plainly. You must be doing an engineering job or something ...
caysman changes to centurion: because caysman is a little bit showy, seems to breed envy, no sense to get that stupid point as a point of contention in a good fight. centurion is chosen because that's the word on my computer casing.
and you have to share with me how the hell you write so plainly. You must be doing an engineering job or something ...
PerverTT;267496 said:
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
I'm not trying to make friends or enemies with you with this post. But think carefully - when you dismiss 2nd handers as hogwash, are you throwing away the pieces of a broken mirror simply because you see parts of yourself in the shards and hate the mirror for it?
You dismiss the talk about second handers then admit that one must consider exactly what the 2nd handers consider like the x-factor either to society or the opposite sex. You dismiss my theory but then admit pure evidence of second handedness....
I'm not trying to make friends or enemies with you with this post. But think carefully - when you dismiss 2nd handers as hogwash, are you throwing away the pieces of a broken mirror simply because you see parts of yourself in the shards and hate the mirror for it?
You dismiss the talk about second handers then admit that one must consider exactly what the 2nd handers consider like the x-factor either to society or the opposite sex. You dismiss my theory but then admit pure evidence of second handedness....
hcsiow;267511 said:
saifywaify
Well-Known Member
Re: Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
........................centurion;267526 said:C'mon Kenn... you must be a VIRGIN.
ken.. care to comment? :laughlik:
Why I'm bothered by gangs? I'm not bothered by gangs in general. I wanted to make an observation - it is interesting that, instinctively, toto (not Saify) seems to hate me, and it seems to me that he does hate me in a calculated and not an emotional manner - take note that this is MY romanticizing the situation with some dramatization, and may turn out to be totally wrong. Of course, if he does hate me, he hates me not because of me, but himself, so I take no credit here and I take nothing personally. And I'm not flattering myself either - look at the threads recently posted by toto, he thinks of me all the time, like I'm his obsession. LOL, just interesting as hell.
i don't have space in my heart for hate and neither does toto. and nobody is obsessed with you. you're like an itch that needs to be scratched. the rest of your body (the rest of the forum) may be totally fine but you just wanna scratch that bloody itch (you)!!
Saify's innocently confused. OLL - not the same kettle of fish. Arsenal, also totally different kettle of fish.
confused?chey mike.. haha. you may know lots about porsches and lexuses, mindlessly arguing about shit that doesn't affect the world.. but that doesn't mean i'm confused. i'm just not bothered.
one more thing.. i posted just one, direct, straight to the point comment on your postings. if someone did that to me, i'd probably pm him and talk to him about it. if someone, anyone, had suggestions on how i could use MY SKILL to FURTHER BENEFIT other users of the forum.. i'd happily take note of them.
but you.. heh. broke into seven pages of bantering. why? i have no idea. it amuses me though. haha.. i bet it amuses ken and toto too. funny thing is we're all laughing.
laughing. which is why we're all here in this beautiful forum.. to learn more about our cars and have fun. so lets have fun. don't take stuff so seriously.. this isn't a court of law.
cheers and have a good thursday! one more day to the weekend!! woohoooo!!!
PerverTT
Well-Known Member
Re: Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
I am relieved to hear it came from this rather obscure source. I was thinking about another centurion. I think his name was 'Biggus Dickus.' Big sword and sandals type character from 'Life of Brian' - one of my favourite movies. I think I'm showing my age by revealing my movie preferences!
I am relieved to hear it came from this rather obscure source. I was thinking about another centurion. I think his name was 'Biggus Dickus.' Big sword and sandals type character from 'Life of Brian' - one of my favourite movies. I think I'm showing my age by revealing my movie preferences!
Re: Porsche 911 vs all the rest of the pretenders
I've never liked MT's filthy mouth and talk of wonderfully risky street driving, and I don't know PerverTT, but I agree with their points on this thread. There are two opposites and infinite steps in between. To deny that one extreme exists is silly. Rand's very specific description of one extreme is great because it is so accurate. Though, to every aphorism or piece of rhetoric there are exceptions, so I'm sure there exists somewhere, an equally powerful description of the other extreme.
Many claim to only be objectively invested or completely above the exchanges in this thread (to the point of pure amusement), yet all are writing sentences - some possibly affected, others clearly irritated or hostile as shown by crude words and illogical negative blurbs that seek no clarification or understanding. All can reply to the claims of the rest, "..as am I, yet here we are", yet all are invested and posting. Everyone might as well go on and address points and not even try to play the "I'm beyond all this" game. Anyone who is beyond the discussion here, isn't present and so can't even make the claim.
There is negative connotation to gangs because of their negative actions. Action (words) on a forum are logged unless deleted and evidence is everywhere. Gangs are not the same as groups, companies, associations, clubs, teams, etc. BMWsg is not a gang. It is perfectly normal to have a group gather for a few specific reasons, and in other areas have its members act as individuals and not run snivelling sideline commentary or carry unconstructive negative emotion arising from a single thread and spread it out across other totally unrelated threads as if the forum is their personal playground.
People who won't or can't add anything to the thread except complain that it's too wordy, can just quietly move on to the hundreds of one line threads and be happy.
It's nice reading a little bit about other marques in a good forum where the differences can be discussed cleanly. It would be great to have at least one fanboy from every marque in this forum, as long as discussion is clean and structured. It will never be objective, but clean and structured is sufficient.
I've never liked MT's filthy mouth and talk of wonderfully risky street driving, and I don't know PerverTT, but I agree with their points on this thread. There are two opposites and infinite steps in between. To deny that one extreme exists is silly. Rand's very specific description of one extreme is great because it is so accurate. Though, to every aphorism or piece of rhetoric there are exceptions, so I'm sure there exists somewhere, an equally powerful description of the other extreme.
Many claim to only be objectively invested or completely above the exchanges in this thread (to the point of pure amusement), yet all are writing sentences - some possibly affected, others clearly irritated or hostile as shown by crude words and illogical negative blurbs that seek no clarification or understanding. All can reply to the claims of the rest, "..as am I, yet here we are", yet all are invested and posting. Everyone might as well go on and address points and not even try to play the "I'm beyond all this" game. Anyone who is beyond the discussion here, isn't present and so can't even make the claim.
There is negative connotation to gangs because of their negative actions. Action (words) on a forum are logged unless deleted and evidence is everywhere. Gangs are not the same as groups, companies, associations, clubs, teams, etc. BMWsg is not a gang. It is perfectly normal to have a group gather for a few specific reasons, and in other areas have its members act as individuals and not run snivelling sideline commentary or carry unconstructive negative emotion arising from a single thread and spread it out across other totally unrelated threads as if the forum is their personal playground.
People who won't or can't add anything to the thread except complain that it's too wordy, can just quietly move on to the hundreds of one line threads and be happy.
It's nice reading a little bit about other marques in a good forum where the differences can be discussed cleanly. It would be great to have at least one fanboy from every marque in this forum, as long as discussion is clean and structured. It will never be objective, but clean and structured is sufficient.
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