To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

[Mockngbrd]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

am i one of the few who likes the Mark X?
i think it's a cool car... FR, 200+BHP... they even made a Supercharger concept version...
http://toyota.jp/toyopet/50th/markx/

shweeet

 

[MARK]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

methinks e90 has a body chasis developed for M3 whereas IS250 is developed from mark X? what do the rest think?

 

[IS200]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

The IS250 shares same body/chassis as its much more powerful IS350 and the IS430 bretheren. Unfortunately, the latter 2 models are not brought into SG by Borneo Motors.

In terms of engine BHP, the IS430 is in M3 league and then some.

 

[smoobies]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

i find that e90 look nicer, well or else i would'nt get one...
still haven't exp any problem yet.. hope there wil be none...

 

[michaeltan]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

Actually, there is a TOTAL DEFEAT of any Toyota stability control and traction control, which was successfully used during Road And Track's recent comparo of the 4WD saloons.

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/10772/lexus-is250.html

And for that occasional run through the woods, when you’d rather not have the electronics interfere with your tire-sliding ambitions, here’s how to shut down the stability system. Start the car with the hand brake engaged. Press the brake pedal twice and hold. Engage the hand brake twice and hold. Repeat until the “skid lights” appear on the dash. The ABS does not shut off. When the engine is subsequently turned off and then switched back on, the stability control is reactivated. (Presumably, this trick works on all new Toyota and Lexus models, and it’s easier than it sounds.)

This is defenitely a more complete disable compared to Merc ESP defeat, where the ESP just engages at a higher treshold, and the ASR is still on. Since it is a total defeat, it is also more complete a disablement compared to BMW which moves the DSC+T to very very high levels before engagement.

IS250 will be my pick. 06 model V6 pumps 204 horse and 184 lb-ft torque. 6-speed manu-matic transmission. Input port for iPod, optional Mark Levinson audio, a navigation system with a rear-view camera, total of 10 air bags, Swiveling Xenon headlights, radar-sensed, pre-crash seatbelt tensioners.

The only setback is its advanced stability control system - it has no button to disable, unlike our bimmer's DSC/ASC control button.

 

[ment]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

The suspensions are overdamped and transmit too much shocks to the cabin. This mean it is not an all-round package like the BMW. Then you will notice the driver interface is far from intimate: the electric power steering is too light and lacks feel, while the paddle shift gearbox reacts slowly.

The electronic stability management system intervenes too early and too eagerly to protect its baby. And it cannot be switched off ! this mean the IS250 can never exploit the limit of its aggressive rubbers and suspensions.

IS250, combination of 204 hp, 185 lbft and 1570 kg result in a rather leisure performance, while the soft-set suspensions cannot excite its driver in the same way as BMW 325i.

- cramped the rear cabin
- legroom and headroom tight at the rear seats

It seems to be engineered by some people who don't know what made BMW 3-Series so successful.

 

[michaeltan]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

Ment, my opinion of your findings, and only my opinion of course, is that your findings on the IS is against my personal experience and reflects the Road and Track review of the IS only, but not that of other mainstream presses. Please note that the Road and Track review was for the IS250 AWD, different from our RWD local model.

What I don't agree with your post, are:

1) It IS possible to defeat totally all driver aids except ABS. This is detailed in Car and Driver:

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/10772/lexus-is250.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/10772/lexus-is250.html

here’s how to shut down the stability system. Start the car with the hand brake engaged. Press the brake pedal twice and hold. Engage the hand brake twice and hold. Repeat until the “skid lights” appear on the dash. The ABS does not shut off. When the engine is subsequently turned off and then switched back on, the stability control is reactivated. (Presumably, this trick works on all new Toyota and Lexus models, and it’s easier than it sounds.)

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/10772/lexus-is250.html

2) I find that the GS and the IS both intervene at limits as high as the BMW 5 and 3 series respectively, and intervenes at limits far higher than Mercedes Benz ESP and ASR.

3) The GS lacks feel. The IS is light, and significantly mre feel than the GS, and the steering is very sharp, and there's loads of front end grip. It is very easy to position the car using the steering, put a dime on the apex and you'll hit it. The precision is marvellous. This is even reflected in the local media IIRC, see your latest edition of Torque.

3) The BMW 325 is more fun to drive than the IS near limits, but in normal commuting on the ECP, CTE, the IS is significantly nicer. Not only my opinion, but that of Top Gear when the IS pipped the 3-series as Car of the Year, with a special comment from Jeremy Clarkson. Of course, the 323 and 320 (priced at a higher but closer level to the IS250) is significantly inferior to the IS in terms of performance at least.

4) The paddle shift gearbox reacts at the same speed as the BMW 6-speed ZF. The difference is that the SHIFT is a PROGRAM SHIFT and not a GEAR SHIFT. In essence, the Lexus manual shift states the HIGHEST GEAR which the program will shift. The number you see on the dash, is NOT the gear the car is in, but the highest gear the program will be in. If you REALLY want the gear at 1, shift it all the way to display 1 and the car will forever be stuck in 1 instead of 2 or 3 or 4. But if you set it at 3, the program will decide to be either in 1,2 or 3 depending on conditions. This is to protect the valves. Driving a car at higher than optimal gear, puts enormous strain on the valves and will lead to engine failure. Since Toyota does not want so much liability for warranty, they choose the `program' way instead of BMW's GEAR way. Several manufacturers, including Jaguar, Mercedes, use the Lexus way instead of the BMW way in their auto slushboxes.

An interview with the chief engineer of the IS (surprisingly, again in Torque), clearly stated that they did not use the BMW as the benchmark. As Eggz said in another post, BMW's primary aim is driving enjoyment. Lexus' primary aim is refinement, then driving enjoyment.

The new Lexus IS350 is such a ridiculous car.

the suspensions are overdamped and transmit too much shocks to the cabin. This mean it is not an all-round package like the BMW. Then you will notice the driver interface is far from intimate: the electric power steering is too light and lacks feel, while the paddle shift gearbox reacts slowly.

The electronic stability management system intervenes too early and too eagerly to protect its baby. And it cannot be switched off ! this mean the IS250 can never exploit the limit of its aggressive rubbers and suspensions.

IS250, combination of 204 hp, 185 lbft and 1570 kg result in a rather leisure performance, while the soft-set suspensions cannot excite its driver in the same way as BMW 325i.

- cramped the rear cabin
- legroom and headroom tight at the rear seats

It seems to be engineered by some people who don't know what made BMW 3-Series so successful.

 

[Evo9]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

The new Lexus IS350 is such a ridiculous car.

IS250, combination of 204 hp, 185 lbft and 1570 kg result in a rather leisure performance, while the soft-set suspensions cannot excite its driver in the same way as BMW 325i.

It seems to be engineered by some people who don't know what made BMW 3-Series so successful.

To put your argument in proper perspective, in the same price range of SGD 125,000 or thereabouts, I think that the BMW E90 320i is an even more ridiculous offering.

What with only 150 BHP puny engine and 4-cylinders 16v only! How to compare with 6-cylinders 24v quadcam? The IS250 will leave the BMW way far behind on straights, as well as on bends. I think 'leisurely' is what epitomizes the 320i, in that light.

Go up 6-cylinders to the 323i. Still lose out with only 170 BHP and at what price? $30K more than the IS250. Don't waste your time on this laggard lah brother. For the same road tax as the 325i, I think its a bloody waste of money.

Of course if you want to spend $50K more for the 325i, but then, there are other far more powerful and interesting cars that can be got at $170K.

 

[ment]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

the new IS250 are disappointing.

This is undoubtedly a disappointment to a brand traditionally so strong at refinement. It doesn't feel as quick as BMW 320. It doesn't handle or ride as good too. The over-light steering is still detached from the road. However, the notorious VDIM is found less intrusive in this car, probably because the IS250 offers less grip and corners less hard than the IS350, so it needs to push much harder to get the electronic aids intervening.

Lexus could not afford to spend big development budget on it. This explain why it has to share the same engine with the cheap Toyota models.

I would say this is one of the most disappointing cars of the year.

 

[Evo9]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

No need to compare with the IS250.

Proven fact: The previous IS200 outruns and outhandles the E90 320i many times over.

 

[michaeltan]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

In any case, the answer for the threadstarter, whether E90 320 or IS250, the answer is quite obvious. The IS250, so much better value for money, in terms of refinement, performance, interior look, exterior look and build quality, is the obvious choice.

Plus, the best point - IT'S A TOYOTA. The world's biggest auto manufacturer which is not gonna go bust, with the best reliability record.

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

In any case, the answer for the threadstarter, whether E90 320 or IS250, the answer is quite obvious. The IS250, so much better value for money, in terms of refinement, performance, interior look, exterior look and build quality, is the obvious choice.

Plus, the best point - IT'S A TOYOTA. The world's biggest auto manufacturer which is not gonna go bust, with the best reliability record.

Hello michael,

without a doubt you have put very strong points across to everyone here on your personal opinion of the Lexus IS250.

However the fact is that every individual has their preferences on what they like or do not like. You are a knowledgeable person and I believe I said so because you have put across some very strong facts and points be it for a Lexus, Mercedes or BMW.

But you must understand that you should never ever try to push yourself hard to convert BMW owners here to fully comprehend their love for a BMW. Lexus is no doubt a very reliable, comfortable and of course prestigious marque. I can fairly state this because I do have a GS300 and I just test drove the IS250 yesterday just to be able to understand the car even more.

Point is that this is a BMW enthusiasts forum. Once you have stated your personal opinion and passion for a Lexus, leave it there and then. Kindly refrain from making statements like the one which I have extracted and highlighted above from one of your postings.

At the end of the day, the debate is similar to why someone would choose a service apartment rather than a condo, Armani jeans over a pair from Giordano, sleek Prada shoes over Bata, or perhaps even Okamoto condoms over Durex.

As materialistic as it may sound, given a choice and same budget, I would purchase a Maserati Quattroporte over a Mercedes E55 AMG simple because of the presence the Maserati would have over the Mercedes. Yet again this is my personal opinion and of course my budget allowance.

I have no qualms absolutely about having your generous and informative postings on the Lexus IS250 or even the entire Lexus range so to speak.

I hope you understand my layman explanation above and should you require any further clarification, please do not hesitate to PM me and I believe we are able to resolve any issues perfectly well if any.

Meanwhile I do hope you enjoy your stay in BMW.SG and it would be great to have your educational contributions in the automotive industry


Regards
Barry

 

[shaaz]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

No need to compare with the IS250.

Proven fact: The previous IS200 outruns and outhandles the E90 320i many times over.

prove it to me that the IS200 is even worth putting up against the E46 320i

 

[bmwF1]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

Hello michael,

without a doubt you have put very strong points across to everyone here on your personal opinion of the Lexus IS250.

However the fact is that every individual has their preferences on what they like or do not like. You are a knowledgeable person and I believe I said so because you have put across some very strong facts and points be it for a Lexus, Mercedes or BMW.

But you must understand that you should never ever try to push yourself hard to convert BMW owners here to fully comprehend their love for a BMW. Lexus is no doubt a very reliable, comfortable and of course prestigious marque. I can fairly state this because I do have a GS300 and I just test drove the IS250 yesterday just to be able to understand the car even more.

Point is that this is a BMW enthusiasts forum. Once you have stated your personal opinion and passion for a Lexus, leave it there and then. Kindly refrain from making statements like the one which I have extracted and highlighted above from one of your postings.

At the end of the day, the debate is similar to why someone would choose a service apartment rather than a condo, Armani jeans over a pair from Giordano, sleek Prada shoes over Bata, or perhaps even Okamoto condoms over Durex.

As materialistic as it may sound, given a choice and same budget, I would purchase a Maserati Quattroporte over a Mercedes E55 AMG simple because of the presence the Maserati would have over the Mercedes. Yet again this is my personal opinion and of course my budget allowance.

I have no qualms absolutely about having your generous and informative postings on the Lexus IS250 or even the entire Lexus range so to speak.

I hope you understand my layman explanation above and should you require any further clarification, please do not hesitate to PM me and I believe we are able to resolve any issues perfectly well if any.

Meanwhile I do hope you enjoy your stay in BMW.SG and it would be great to have your educational contributions in the automotive industry


Regards
Barry

good one barry!

before you post pls read what barry has to say, i think he has driven the point across already.

do not force your own opinion upon others. i do not wish to see this thread being close by the admin.

 

[m3magic]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

take the IS200 and run with the E46 320i, see if it can outhandle it... even the e90 320i is a better balanced car than the IS200..

so where is the big disappointment??... prove it to me that the IS200 is even worth putting up against the E46 320i

Shaaz,
After I run in my IS250 liao, we organize a "benchmarking" run; bring on your e90 320, 323, 325 and lets get on with it .... all these tok gives me a headache!!

 

[Evo9]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

take the IS200 and run with the E46 320i, see if it can outhandle it... even the e90 320i is a better balanced car than the IS200..

so where is the big disappointment??... prove it to me that the IS200 is even worth putting up against the E46 320i

No need to prove to you. I proved it for myself.
Tested the E46 318i and 320i over 4 times each, and the IS200 for the same number of times. On high speed straights and on bends. The IS200 is indeed a much better balanced car.
It reacts quicker too on the steer around very tight bends.
E46 318i came closer to a balanced act, compared to the E46 320i - which was just plain too nose-heavy around fast bends.
E46 generally too much wind noise also (at fender mirrors), above 120 km/h.

Same thing for the E90 320i. Tested it and naaaaah. Can't touch the IS200 re handling prowess. Just not as nimble. Close though.

And listen to this:
When I went out to test drive the E90 320i recently, the PML SE was trying his utmost to sing praises on how short the new car's overhang was blaah blaah (w/o realizing that I drove an IS200). All I did was to drive the test car parallel to mine parked at the PML premises. I just pointed to him the IS200's overhang and asked him: "Now you tell me, whose overhang is much shorter". And the IS200 was like 6 years ahead of the E90.

That guy just went silent for quite a while in the car. Game over.

 

[michaeltan]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

Hi mod. My work is in the IT industry, as you probably know if you search the web. My passion is automotive tech (stock).

I hang out here and in Carma because, Carma got all sorts of car lovers, and here got quite delightful personalities who are obviously knowledgeable.

While I think it is objectively unjustifiable for anybody to buy a BMW 320, 323 over a IS250, I think that, if anybody admits that the money is not a problem, and would not like the roughness of an M3, and goes ahead and buys a 330i, I say - I WOULD DO THAT TOO! And if money not a problem, why 325? Go 330 lah.

And please remember, I really don't have a passion for Lexus. I find it very jia lat to be coming up with the word Lexus every time I feel compelled to put down a BMW.

I really like the Quattroporte, save that it's Italian. Not the E55 though, I dislike the implementation of the supercharger. New Merc engines suspected to be turbocharged rather than supercharged, if they have the balls for it. Even then, I would take the NA route. If I had just an unbridled choice on a car to buy, NOT A SUPERCAR, and if I had to foot the repair bill, it would be the Mercedes SL500. Though it's a heavy piece of iron, it's NA, it's pretty, I don't feel like a homo in it, and repair costs are manageable.

Hello michael,

without a doubt you have put very strong points across to everyone here on your personal opinion of the Lexus IS250.

However the fact is that every individual has their preferences on what they like or do not like. You are a knowledgeable person and I believe I said so because you have put across some very strong facts and points be it for a Lexus, Mercedes or BMW.

But you must understand that you should never ever try to push yourself hard to convert BMW owners here to fully comprehend their love for a BMW. Lexus is no doubt a very reliable, comfortable and of course prestigious marque. I can fairly state this because I do have a GS300 and I just test drove the IS250 yesterday just to be able to understand the car even more.

Point is that this is a BMW enthusiasts forum. Once you have stated your personal opinion and passion for a Lexus, leave it there and then. Kindly refrain from making statements like the one which I have extracted and highlighted above from one of your postings.

At the end of the day, the debate is similar to why someone would choose a service apartment rather than a condo, Armani jeans over a pair from Giordano, sleek Prada shoes over Bata, or perhaps even Okamoto condoms over Durex.

As materialistic as it may sound, given a choice and same budget, I would purchase a Maserati Quattroporte over a Mercedes E55 AMG simple because of the presence the Maserati would have over the Mercedes. Yet again this is my personal opinion and of course my budget allowance.

I have no qualms absolutely about having your generous and informative postings on the Lexus IS250 or even the entire Lexus range so to speak.

I hope you understand my layman explanation above and should you require any further clarification, please do not hesitate to PM me and I believe we are able to resolve any issues perfectly well if any.

Meanwhile I do hope you enjoy your stay in BMW.SG and it would be great to have your educational contributions in the automotive industry


Regards
Barry

 

[m3magic]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

No need to prove to you. I proved it for myself.
Tested the E46 318i and 320i over 4 times each, and the IS200 for the same number of times. On high speed straights and on bends. The IS200 is indeed a much better balanced car.
It reacts quicker too on the steer around very tight bends.
E46 318i came closer to a balanced act, compared to the E46 320i - which was just plain too nose-heavy around fast bends.
E46 generally too much wind noise also (at fender mirrors), above 120 km/h.

Same thing for the E90 320i. Tested it and naaaaah. Can't touch the IS200 re handling prowess. Just not as nimble. Close though.

And listen to this:
When I went out to test drive the E90 320i recently, the PML SE was trying his utmost to sing praises on how short the new car's overhang was blaah blaah (w/o realizing that I drove an IS200). All I did was to drive the test car parallel to mine parked at the PML premises. I just pointed to him the IS200's overhang and asked him: "Now you tell me, whose overhang is much shorter". And the IS200 was like 6 years ahead of the E90.

That guy just went silent for quite a while in the car. Game over.

Errr.... sorry dude, but I also used to own a IS200 (until I took delivery of my IS250 last week); somehow my experience is different from yours leh? in the bends, I still think IS200 is not up to par with the e46s wor?

What mods you have on your IS200 eh?

 

[Greentea]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

always good to compare. Here's another choice for a car in same category for those considering E90 or IS250.

Its the Toyota Mark-X. Some very good discussions.

http://www.mycarforum.com/forum/Asi...alk_F2/Lexus_IS250_or_Toyota_MarkII_P1287835/

 

[Evo9]

Re: To Buy or not to buy (e90 320 vs IS250)

m3magic,

Was yours the pre-FL IS200 which came with 16" rims (circa 1999-2002)?