Re: BMWSG Sepang Track Day 6 March 2011
pdreams;613323 said:
Hi,
I do feel that BMW.SG Admin has messed up on this registration. No flame intended.
Given what is happening, I think it is pretty pointless to have a list of interetested parties.
Better to just have forumers fill up a list of paid attendees. Those who paid gets to fill up their names and those who don't, no need to.
What is the initial intention of having the list? To know what cars are being driven and what sort of experience etc etc?
MA has come in via. the Admin and book 15 slots like that, no need for listing etc which implies that only paying is needed.
What is needed is a paid list, not a list of interest if this is how it is going to be.
I hope I am not being too straightforward here. It seems and feels wrong although I can only say, capitalism rules but somehow it goes against the mantra of a forum trackday. Perhaps Admin will like to come up with some clarifications. Personally, I am not attending this trackday and have for some time not attended BMW SG Forum trackdays. Big thanks to those who are organising these trackdays out of their free time. Hopefully, you are able to see this post as an iteration to help improve the registration process.
Can I say that I fully understand the sentiments of our members here. I do. To answer some specific points you have raised:
a) We still do need an "interested to attend" list. From an organiser's point of view, without this list, we cannot react accordingly if there is genuine under-attendance. If the numbers are appallingly low, I have to react by writing to SIC, get a waiver, change date, etc. If the numbers are a little low only, we as organisers start calling up all our contacts in our phone book and persuade them to come and support and make up the numbers. Now this latter scenario has been the norm for quite a while now, and it is the organiser's BIGGEST HEADACHE. (this March 6's reverse scenario problem is much rarer, and happened chiefly because of the unique 5 month gap between the last 2010 and the first 2011 track day.)
And you guys dont know this, but Jack has, through his own efforts, saved several of our TDs from losing money in the past by calling his contacts (mainly PCS members. thanks guys) and getting them to support us. And when numbers come out short, he topped up with his own money. Salute.
So, we definitely do need to maintain an "interest list". If not, we cannot react.
b) Following incidences of losses, I decided to implement a pre-payment method, chiefly to protect losses due to people simply not turning up and paying. This has been widely discussed in other threads. As a result of this procedure, it became apparent that from a procedural POV, pre-payment secures your slots. And because we have a 40 car cap, the first 40 pre-payments secures these slots. Theoretically, this logic makes sense.
so, for people who have paid up, I will simply come online and mark "paid". When 40 are marked "paid" we have a full house and the TD is a go.
Now, stay with me for a while here. The list is populated by the interested trackkies themselves, who come in and write their own name. Later on when they pay, I just update "paid" next to their names. Sometimes, they write for their friends too. And sometimes, they pay for/together with their friends, and sometimes their friends pay themselves. I just update. Sometimes, people pay me first, then they come online and list their names. Logically its fine too. Sometimes, people pay me first, never come online, and after I receive the payment, I have to come online and list for them. On the surface it seems as if I was the one inviting them coz the listing of their names came from my post, but in truth, I did that only because I was the one who received the money. Sometimes, I dont even know this guy. (I dont personally know every member here)
Next, you can see this pre-payment system is thus blind to bias. Whether you are an individual or a group (in this example, PCS or munich, or workshops, our most common group entries here) you pay the same rate, and are subject to the same chances and rules on participation. So, even if you are a group, to me an as organiser, it's completely transparent. My only concern is that you are vouched for by a known member and I will elaborate on this later. So if a group from a workshop comes and intends to secure 10 slots but there are only 4 left, they can only get 4. I am blind to groupings on this issue of registration. From this aspect, I only look at cars, and slots. And the time sequence of securing the slots, from who.
In this specific case of Munich, I actually see them as individual cars. Just like any member here. They dont book through me; they book the slots just like any BMWSG member here. The thing that they didnt do, is to come in and list their interest. 1 or 2 other track participants here also didnt list and paid. I also listed for them. Just that for Munich's side, 15 slots without listing interest first but paid first is glaringly substantial. With payment, I have to come online and update the thread. Hope you guys see the picture now. They have a list of drivers and cars, but I had not received it at that point in time, so I have to fill it up with just a generic name. To me, it's as if 15 drivers paid into my account at the same time (but they did not update the thread, leaving me to do it). That they all come from Munich, is transparent to me. And in all fairness, Munich did not do anything wrong as a participant.
There is one mistake that I have made as an organiser, after giving careful consideration to how things unfolded. And that is, I definitely should have come online to list munich's "interest" in the full list, instead of the participants doing it themselves. That, would have given a clearer demand-supply picture, and I endeavour to improve on this point subsequently. As an organiser, I knew that they were going to participate as a group, but as to their numbers and when they can confirm, I am not in the loop. Hence the reason why I urged everyone to pay up asap whenever I have the chance to communicate with them, but I couldnt give a definite time and number to the slots availability (and hence it didnt occur to me to come onto this thread to list down their interested numbers). I hope the picture is clearer to everyone now. This, I hope to improve from next track day onwards.
c) Our track day is a controlled attendance track day. We insist on an invite-only participation for only one reason: to have high safety standards.This is done through the exclusion of unknown hooligans (we had that on the track before. not good), and the rapid orientation of newbies to be up to par on safety awareness. This insistence, together with our 40 car cap, ensures the quality of our track day.
The BMWSG track day also has another purpose. To promote motorsports among our own community, and to introduce tracking to as many newbies as possible, so everyone can pick this hobby up.
You can see how these 2 points: increase safety + encourage newbies, actually chiong. But no choice as that's inherent to the original aims of our TD. That's why I have always placed special emphasis on additional safety briefings for the newbies. Many of you may not know, but for the last track day, I actually organised a separate safey brief a couple of days before the TD, at Munich, because I recognised that it was important to bring this group of newbies up to par in terms of our safety culture. So that the overall conduct of the TD itself can be smoother. And it did work well, as we did have a full field of gentlemen trackkies in the end. Hopefully this will address the concerns of some who feel that there are too many newbies in our coming TD. In any case, not all of Munich's participants are newbies. Some actually race in prominent regional races.
d) so yes, any verified party can participate in our track day, and they will be treated as individuals will, without bias, towards or away, subject to the same rules. Individual member's participation is just as important as group participation. In fact, for the past 7 years, very often the majority of the attendees are not from BMWSG. And they have been instrumental in maintaining the critical mass to make our TDs sensible. Now that as it seems, we are approaching participation majority from within BMWSG, it doesnt mean we should immediately restrict group participation, as thats where our roots came from. I am treating them as individual entries now. Any logical suggestions to further improve this system is greatly welcome.
e) There's feedback from another post about charging a premium for group participation, or to contribute more to our track day fund. If we are to continue with our present philosophy of running our TD, then this idea will not be in line. Furthermore, as I have explained in the other thread, we have achieved our objective of raising a TD fund for BMWSG. Which is to only have enough to pay for our rolling deposit, and to maintain a security buffer in case of very low attendance. And for no other reason.
Until 1) sepang changes its charging rates, 2) we encounter a big loss-making TD due to low numbers, for theforseeable future, the TDs will be charged cost to cost, and I see no meaning in increasing the size of the fund.
Feedback on these points, as well as on any other points associated with the running of our TD is greatly welcome. We should discuss this in the open forum for everyone's benefit. And as with every other endeavour we embark on, this is a project that we should all try to improve on and streamline over time. Let's all try to add positively to the running of our TD for everyone's enjoyment.
