Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

[lkm]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

I've been following this post and let's see if we can relate to this:

Sick patient goes see doctor. Doctor found out that patient has been taking drugs. Doctor says insurance no longer cover patient, and tell patient that he's fine. Patient insists he's sick, but doctor insists he's fine. Patient goes seek 2nd opinion, and found out he's got CANCER! He flys to Germany for treatment and pays for it himself as insurance no longer cover him. Patient recovers.


Questions:
1. if patient blur blur and believed doctor, and subsequently dies, whose fault?
2. Does the doctor still owe a professional duty of care to the patient even though he has been taking drugs and insurance no longer covers him?
3. Is it fair for the patient to start doubting the medical competency of this particular doctor?

Patient writes to MOH. MOH replies that the hospital in question will respond. Hospital still deciding if hospital or doctor in question should respond. Meanwhile, patient lost all faith in the medical field, and starts going to "outside workshop" for alternative TCM treatment.

Disclaimer: this is a purely fictitious story and any relation to the real world is purely coincidental. :chinese:

 

[bm323]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

I've been following this post and let's see if we can relate to this:

Sick patient goes see doctor. Doctor found out that patient has been taking drugs. Doctor says insurance no longer cover patient, and tell patient that he's fine. Patient insists he's sick, but doctor insists he's fine. Patient goes seek 2nd opinion, and found out he's got CANCER! He flys to Germany for treatment and pays for it himself as insurance no longer cover him. Patient recovers.


Questions:
1. if patient blur blur and believed doctor, and subsequently dies, whose fault?
2. Does the doctor still owe a professional duty of care to the patient even though he has been taking drugs and insurance no longer covers him?
3. Is it fair for the patient to start doubting the medical competency of this particular doctor?

Patient writes to MOH. MOH replies that the hospital in question will respond. Hospital still deciding if hospital or doctor in question should respond. Meanwhile, patient lost all faith in the medical field, and starts going to "outside workshop" for alternative TCM treatment.

Disclaimer: this is a purely fictitious story and any relation to the real world is purely coincidental. :chinese:

May need to refine your example, the warranty was voided due to the mod to the ECU and the repairer is not conversant with such a mod/not within its expertise?

 

[cisconet1234]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

Hahah.. An interesting one..

 

[zorro]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

Good story/analogy...

Happened to watch crime watch 2 weeks ago about a case in the 80's whereby a stupid doctor mis-diagnosed a young girl to have brain cancer and operated on her and caused her death subsequently. The poor mother suspected foul play and thanks to the Inspector working furiously on the case and involving the late famous pathologist findings and prolong court case, the doctor was found to be negligient and sentenced to jail..

So dont play play when life is concerned but for car, its not so important and no police will act on it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been following this post and let's see if we can relate to this:

Sick patient goes see doctor. Doctor found out that patient has been taking drugs. Doctor says insurance no longer cover patient, and tell patient that he's fine. Patient insists he's sick, but doctor insists he's fine. Patient goes seek 2nd opinion, and found out he's got CANCER! He flys to Germany for treatment and pays for it himself as insurance no longer cover him. Patient recovers.


Questions:
1. if patient blur blur and believed doctor, and subsequently dies, whose fault?
2. Does the doctor still owe a professional duty of care to the patient even though he has been taking drugs and insurance no longer covers him?
3. Is it fair for the patient to start doubting the medical competency of this particular doctor?

Patient writes to MOH. MOH replies that the hospital in question will respond. Hospital still deciding if hospital or doctor in question should respond. Meanwhile, patient lost all faith in the medical field, and starts going to "outside workshop" for alternative TCM treatment.

Disclaimer: this is a purely fictitious story and any relation to the real world is purely coincidental. :chinese:

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

May need to refine your example, the warranty was voided due to the mod to the ECU and the repairer is not conversant with such a mod/not within its expertise?

1. They did not prove beyond doubt that my mods caused this. Sticky issue but I am willing to accept it. You pay to play.

2. They (BMW Asia and PML) insisted nothing was wrong and the problem was with the airconditioner unit having too much pressure. It is not that they did not know at all. They chose to use the aircon as a reason to the sound I was having. Clearly a mis-diagnosis from BMW Asia who happens to be a subsidiary of the BMW AG group. It is not acceptable that they did not know what was wrong with the car. They are here for a reason so clearly the people sitting in here in BMW Asia are not the same calibre as those sitting in Germany otherwise they would have checked the car properly instead of lying to me. I have all evidence that shows they were wrong in their diagnosis and that they were dead wrong on their speculation. I am furious because they tried to lie to me making me think nothing was wrong with it when I knew something was not right. (Gotta love the doctor patient story!). This is the sole reason for my frustration with them. As for PML, I think we are all used to their bullshit so there is not much point taking a piss at them since its public knowledge.

3. Warranty was voided even after stating nothing was wrong in black and white to me. I requested for a letter of confirmation from M division through BMW Asia which relates to the warranty of my car which until today remains un-presented to me. They stated this was confidential. Why ? Unless its a probable conspiracy.

Sometimes patients are smarter than doctors...Possibly hospitals and MOH in some instances...
Just like how the floods proved PUB drew the wrong analysis and statement to the people. When you dig too much, shit is definitely gonna hit the fan. Ain't not freak flood for sure.

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

May need to refine your example, the warranty was voided due to the mod to the ECU and the repairer is not conversant with such a mod/not within its expertise?

He mentioned taking drugs so its actually a very good example. Hehehehe...
BMW Asia is supposed to have the right people to check the cars properly not tell the customers nothing is wrong when there is something wrong. As customers, we have every right to know even if warranty is voided. At least, customer will be able to make proper decisions instead of making it worse under their mis-diagnosis. I would'nt have much of an engine to rebuild if I believed that nothing was wrong according to them. Clearly, a clear cut fuck-up from them especially when you read the letter and see what actually was wrong with the engine which was totally different from their diagnosis.

 

[snowmanyee]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

Hi pals.

This is my first post. Although I have not yet finish reading all the sharings in this thread, I am already worried after reading just a few pages. I am not yet a BMW owner but intend to go down PML this weekend for a test drive and probably signing on the dotted line if everything goes well. However, I am now apprehensive and have really to think twice before buying a BMW with them.

On this note, I start to worry again after an incident yesterday. I called up PML on Wed to enquire about the cars. I got a very friendly SE answering to my queries and seem very impressive. I then called her later that afternoon to quote me the trade-in price of my current car. Again very friendly and polite, she jotted down all my particulars and said she would get back to me very shortly.

I waited, waited and waited. After more than 24 hours, still no reply. So I smsed her for the status update. Guess what.... she called me an hour later and apologised to me cos she had lost my particulars including my contacts!! If you are a SE, do you think you would have been so silly and careless to lose a potential customer's particulars?? Fortunately I am a forgiving and patient person so I gave her my particulars again.

After reading all the sharings and bad experiences in this thread, I think I really have to think twice or even thrice to go down to PML this weekend.

 

[Merlin_sg]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

Hi pals.

This is my first post. Although I have not yet finish reading all the sharings in this thread, I am already worried after reading just a few pages. I am not yet a BMW owner but intend to go down PML this weekend for a test drive and probably signing on the dotted line if everything goes well. However, I am now apprehensive and have really to think twice before buying a BMW with them.

On this note, I start to worry again after an incident yesterday. I called up PML on Wed to enquire about the cars. I got a very friendly SE answering to my queries and seem very impressive. I then called her later that afternoon to quote me the trade-in price of my current car. Again very friendly and polite, she jotted down all my particulars and said she would get back to me very shortly.

I waited, waited and waited. After more than 24 hours, still no reply. So I smsed her for the status update. Guess what.... she called me an hour later and apologised to me cos she had lost my particulars including my contacts!! If you are a SE, do you think you would have been so silly and careless to lose a potential customer's particulars?? Fortunately I am a forgiving and patient person so I gave her my particulars again.

After reading all the sharings and bad experiences in this thread, I think I really have to think twice or even thrice to go down to PML this weekend.

IMHO, you should go down, test drive, whack as much as you want, have some free coffee and then go buy from PI

 

[wt_know]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

check out PI especially if you are buying F10

After reading all the sharings and bad experiences in this thread, I think I really have to think twice or even thrice to go down to PML this weekend.

 

[zorro]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

Yep the 528I is a better spec car and more bang for the bucks..

 

[golfgti]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

ive had a good experience from 1 of the sales staff.. hes a older looking gentlemen who let me test drive the x6... he even made a followup phone call so was impressed as nowadays just getting good service from any company, not PML per say is difficult..

but, i didnt buy the x6 in the end coz it was too wide & felt it wld b a liability in most carparks so it aint intended to b a garage queen.

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

I'm just curious though, this is a pretty long informative thread.
Putting aside service standards (since both PI and Agent can have stuck up attitudes even without proper product knowledge) so what is the difference between buying PI and from Agent?

 

[zorro]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

IMHO The only reasons you buy from agent are:

1) Reputable establishment - so wont get cheated or car not delivered when COE rocketed
2) Supposely (questionable now) better after sales service
3) Warranty and any recall support are backup by BMW manufacturer itself.

You pay premium for these else you can get a PI 528I at PML 523I pricing...

 

[etan1]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

my SE leaves me a very good impression of PML sales service. Fuss free, tolerated my negotiations, arranged separate test drive for my wife, delivered car on time immediately after I returned to SGP

 

[dantito]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

Hi pals.

This is my first post. Although I have not yet finish reading all the sharings in this thread, I am already worried after reading just a few pages. I am not yet a BMW owner but intend to go down PML this weekend for a test drive and probably signing on the dotted line if everything goes well. However, I am now apprehensive and have really to think twice before buying a BMW with them.

On this note, I start to worry again after an incident yesterday. I called up PML on Wed to enquire about the cars. I got a very friendly SE answering to my queries and seem very impressive. I then called her later that afternoon to quote me the trade-in price of my current car. Again very friendly and polite, she jotted down all my particulars and said she would get back to me very shortly.

I waited, waited and waited. After more than 24 hours, still no reply. So I smsed her for the status update. Guess what.... she called me an hour later and apologised to me cos she had lost my particulars including my contacts!! If you are a SE, do you think you would have been so silly and careless to lose a potential customer's particulars?? Fortunately I am a forgiving and patient person so I gave her my particulars again.

After reading all the sharings and bad experiences in this thread, I think I really have to think twice or even thrice to go down to PML this weekend.

Woah cool.. So what ride do you have in mind??

 

[zorro]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

You are a nice chap....if you have problem with any SE then confrm the SE need to be fired...

my SE leaves me a very good impression of PML sales service. Fuss free, tolerated my negotiations, arranged separate test drive for my wife, delivered car on time immediately after I returned to SGP

 

[snowmanyee]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

IMHO, you should go down, test drive, whack as much as you want, have some free coffee and then go buy from PI

Thats A GREAT idea! haha

bro dantito, still considering but can only afford the 3 series. :errrrrrr:

anyway, I smsed the SE for a testdrive this afternoon. She called me and told me that some of the 3 series already out of stock. She said she might be able to think a way out for me if I am able to go down asap. I then told her that I am in no hurry to get one and don't mind waiting if need be. She like 'sian' halfway. haha

 

[snowmanyee]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

I'm just curious though, this is a pretty long informative thread.
Putting aside service standards (since both PI and Agent can have stuck up attitudes even without proper product knowledge) so what is the difference between buying PI and from Agent?

Personal experience is PI is cheaper than agent for sure. However agent supposed to offer better aftersales service and you can get original accessories in your deal. For PI, they will give you aftermarket accessories. For agents, they have their own so called specialised workshop whil the PIs would offer outside workshops and at some workshops, you can see lots of lorries and taxis. Usually PI warranty not as enticing as agent but parts and service is much cheaper than agent. So all in all, it the quality and price I would say. PIs usually able to deliver the car faster than agents but there might be risks to deal with them cos you never know when they will close down.

It's actually not a bad idea to by from PI but look for reputable and reliable ones. Some offer good service and might not lose out to agents.

 

[Ahbengdriver]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

There are good people at PML but A$$holes as well. I dont think need to say more.

My SE is a cool guy and I bot my 335i from him bcos he was very professional. Unfortunately, my next car will not be from PML unless things changes. I think their price is really too high n OMV super low. Plus I had some very rude exerience fron their CSAs when I previously sent in my car modded. Yes I pay to play but I wasnt expecting to be treated like a terrorist either and spoken to in that way for a customer who have bot 2 BMWs consecutively from them. It just pisses me off that before you buy, they treat you like king. After you bought, they treat you like $hit.

I am eyeing a PI BMW next year. You willbe surprized that some PI these days can service BMWs better. What I also cannot tahan is small problems PML also take ages to address.

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Another Ridiculous Experience @ PML

There are good people at PML but A$$holes as well. I dont think need to say more.

My SE is a cool guy and I bot my 335i from him bcos he was very professional. Unfortunately, my next car will not be from PML unless things changes. I think their price is really too high n OMV super low. Plus I had some very rude exerience fron their CSAs when I previously sent in my car modded. Yes I pay to play but I wasnt expecting to be treated like a terrorist either and spoken to in that way for a customer who have bot 2 BMWs consecutively from them. It just pisses me off that before you buy, they treat you like king. After you bought, they treat you like $hit.

I am eyeing a PI BMW next year. You willbe surprized that some PI these days can service BMWs better. What I also cannot tahan is small problems PML also take ages to address.

Exactly. In summary, technically and professionally incompetent is what they are.

Its good a fair amount of guys are going the PI route these days especially with the F10 with the crazy low OMV and BMW Asia / PML ridiculous markup.
A good PI tied up with the right workshop is as good as the PI holding hands with you till you part with the car. After-sales is very important and so is the technical competency of the workshops. Workshops like J4C, BVO and Boss all have people who used to work at PML at one time or another. So familiarity with especially BMWs is their forte. Even more so, 90% of the cars at their workshop are all BMWs. That itself is comforting enough.

From what I hear, if Munich Automobiles does well they may potentially take over the Non-M cars as well leaving PML in dust. I hope that happens but that could also mean Munich Automobiles expanding vertically and horizontally over the years which I am not sure is possible. But what has to happen is PML has to go; Big time.
I hope they become the next Hong Seh. Perhaps if BMW Ag is kind enough, they can keep the existing facilities just to service the BMW Motorrad division. Then PML can brag they have the biggest showroom for BMW Motorcycles. Hahahahha...